Friday, June 2, 2023

Happy birthday to the man who embodied an era of Yankee baseball

Posted by el duque at 11:01 AM

 Throughout human history, there have been two Hosses. 

One was a Cartwright, the other a Yankee.


Happy birthday, Hoss
(1939-2020)

19 comments:

JM said...

He was a giant during our second division history. RIP.

June 2, 2023 at 11:45 AM
edb said...

Horace was underrated.

June 2, 2023 at 11:58 AM
HoraceClarke66 said...

I should have been paying more attention. But yeah...not a bad ballplayer, all in all. In fact, statistically, Clarke was actually a little better than Bobby Richardson. But to this day, he's remembered—even by old teammates—as much, much worse.

Hitting:
Horace: .256/.308/.313/.621
Bobby: .266/..299/.335/.634

Advantage: Bobby. BUT with this huge caveat: Richardson almost always played on much, much better hitting teams than Hoss. For instance, Bobby was on the 1961 Yankees, who set the home-run record. Horace, on the 1968 Yankees, who batted a record-low, .214 as a team. And Horace played in more of a pitching era.

Consider this: hitting leadoff, ahead of Elston Howard, Roger Maris, Bill Skowron, Yogi Berra, and Mickey Mantle—among others—Bobby never scored as many as 100 runs in a season.

Running:
Horace: 151-209 in stolen bases.
Bobby: 73-121.

Advantage: Horace, though Bobby did not play in a big base-stealing era.

Fielding:
Horace: .983, with 5,965 chances in 1,102 games.
Bobby: .979, with 6,713 chances in 1,339 games.

That is, Horace had 5.41 chances a game—to 5.01 for Bobby.

This is the category that is the hardest for many people to accept. After all, Bobby Richardson was an acclaimed glove man, who won 5 straight Gold Gloves at second. It has become conventional wisdom that Horace was an awful fielder. But as the song goes, it ain't necessarily so...

For starters, baseball reference gives Clarke a 6.2 dWar in 10 years—over 4.9 for Richardson.
Richardson never led the AL in fielding pct. Clarke did it once (1967).
Richardson led the AL in putouts twice. Clarke did it 4 years in a row, 1968-1971.
Richardson never led the AL in assists. Clarke did it a record 6 years in a row, 1967-1972.

You want new stats? Okay, how about things called "Range Factor per 9 innings" and "Range Factor per game"? Bobby never led in either. Horace led in "per 9 innings" 3 times, and "per game" 4 times. Richardson did lead once in "Total Zone Runs as 2B," where Clarke never did better than second in that category.

The big knock on Horace—long after everybody was retired—was that he would not stand in on the DP. But again, actual facts contradict this. While Richardson led the AL in DPs 4 times—Clarke also did it twice, 1969 and 1972...


June 2, 2023 at 1:15 PM
HoraceClarke66 said...

So what to make of all this?

Hey, I'm the first to argue that fielding, more than any other aspect of the game, eludes easy statistical judgement. But the preponderance of evidence is so great here, that I think it's impossible not to conclude that Horace Clarke was at least as good a fielder at second as Bobby Richardson—which is to say, quite good indeed.

In fact—and here is the value of having actually lived through an era—I don't remember anyone AT THE TIME calling the New York Yankees from 1965-1975 (a team which, generally, had a winning record), "the Horace Clarke Yankees." On a roster that included the likes of Jerry Kennel, Jake Gibbs, and whoever was in RF, he was far from the biggest problem on the team—AND NOBODY THOUGHT HE WAS. THEN...

June 2, 2023 at 1:18 PM
HoraceClarke66 said...

So how to account for Hoss' reputation now?

I put it down to the following:

—He had what sportswriters considered to be a funny name.
—He was what (white) sportswriters considered to be funny looking.
—He was somewhat eccentric. Among other things, he was about the only player on the team to remain living in the Concourse Plaza Hotel, even after the Bronx had begun to crumble.
—He played on (relatively) bad teams, following a time of great, champion teams.
—He followed a much-admired (if overrated) player at his position.
—He was not white.


June 2, 2023 at 1:23 PM
The Archangel said...

I was a young boy when the Hoss played.
All my LL and Town League ball was when he was a Yank.
I grew up in a very racially mixed city which had race riots in two different summers.
I watched White Flight.
Grew up very "Italian."

I never heard one Yankee fan denigrate Hoss during that entire time.

Fans of other teams, like the O's mocked him, but that was revenge for the years that we thumped them.
They made up for it during the Brooks-Palmer years.

I think that he was the face of the down period.

Everything today seems to be seen through the prism of race.
Maybe I was lucky that I knew almost no racists and played football with a dozen of so Black and Spanish kids.
You were treated as you treated others.

June 2, 2023 at 3:06 PM
JM said...

I never thought badly of Hoss and I don't remember any of the neighborhood kids making fun of him. He was fine by us.

June 2, 2023 at 3:19 PM
David Ballela said...

HORACE CLARKE Interviewed by Leo Cloutier @ Yankee Stadium in 1972
https://youtu.be/eLxy_sY05Fg

June 2, 2023 at 6:26 PM
Rufus T. Firefly said...

Hoss is boss.

June 2, 2023 at 8:24 PM
Carl J. Weitz said...

LOL, and one Hoss was bow-legged and the other lived in the nineteenth century.

June 2, 2023 at 8:59 PM
Carl J. Weitz said...

Seriously, Horace was a decent player. But stats like putouts and assists are very misleading. The more walks and hits your pitcher gives up, it follows that both second base AND shortstop will have more chances at the above 2 stats. And to a lesser extent, outfield assists.

June 2, 2023 at 9:06 PM
AboveAverage said...

Three Zero - Who will be our Hero - Jackie Daughterson needs a haircut

June 2, 2023 at 10:23 PM
ranger_lp said...

Severino pitching a gem…smh

June 2, 2023 at 10:25 PM
BernBabyBern said...

Can we take our first-inning mulligan? We get one of those a season, right?

June 2, 2023 at 10:28 PM
AboveAverage said...

This one may be over, fellow commenterz.

Please do not be alarmed.

Please stay in bed, insert your Yankee Binky into your pie holes and snooze as we lose.

June 2, 2023 at 10:30 PM
ranger_lp said...

Gonna see IKF pitching at this rate…

June 2, 2023 at 10:30 PM
AboveAverage said...

Set back Stanton, Donaldson and Sevy

June 2, 2023 at 11:13 PM
MJ said...

Two-thirds of a half inning. Bottom of the first. Six runs. Eight hits. After a day off (bullpen slightly rested, maybe). Anyone reading this who thought the ninth or tenth hit was the time to make a pitching change? The twelfth? The forty-first? Just asking.

June 3, 2023 at 12:49 AM
The Archangel said...

If they sent Mickey Mantle down, they can send Volpe down.
Played 59 games and is batting .190 with a .268 OPS and 69 Ks. And he has a downward trajectory.
Needs time at AAA to figure it out.

Peraza HAS figured it out.
He can't do anymore at AAA.

June 3, 2023 at 6:09 AM

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