I know I'm not the first to say it, but RIP Bob Gibson. One of the best things about YES broadcasts has been Kenny talking about Gibby's fierce attitude toward the competition and, of course, the buzz pitches he was so good at. Gibson played like Cobb played. You might not like the son of a bitch (and Cobb was a fucking racist asshole) (I stand corrected by Publius' comment), but they took no prisoners.
We can debate whether or not things are better today, when the mound is lower and looking cross-eyed at the batter gets a warning to both benches and opponents josh around when someone stands on a base after getting a hit. But we've lost something, no two ways about it. Baseball has followed the generations, leaving the grittier days behind to "be nice" and hand out trophies for third place.
I think it's bad with some good mixed in. But Gibson was goddamn great, and there is no way we'll see anyone like him again. The changes in the game since then make it impossible.
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23 comments:
Amen, JM, amen!
I loved Gibson from the fall I saw him beat the Red Sox in the 1967 World Series. Utterly dominant. I can still remember watching him on TV in 1968, too, when he struck out 17 Tigers to set the one-game Series record.
That was indeed the time when the best pitchers had very distinctive motions, and seemed to throw hard all the time. Gibson always struck me as looking like a great condor out on the mound. (Doc Gooden's motion, when he first came up, was reminiscent of Gibby's.)
And yes, those guys—Marichal, Drysdale, Bob Veale, even Sandy Koufax—headhunted like crazy compared to today's game. Officially, I don't approve, but there was something wild and great about it.
Tribute must be paid, once again, to The Mick, for homering off Koufax and Gibson in consecutive World Series. And to Mel Stottlemyre, one of only two pitchers ever to best Gibson in a World Series game.
The other was Mickey Lolich, but that was mostly because Curt Flood, inexplicably, lost two very catchable balls in the late-afternoon light of Game Seven, in the 1968 Series.
Our Mel, making only his 13th major-league start, beat him straight up, 8-3, in the second game of the 1964 Series. Stottlemyre worked out of a second-and-third, nobody out jam in the bottom of the eighth, giving up just one run to make the score, 4-2. He then finished off his complete-game victory in the next inning.
But Gibson would win games five and seven, going the distance in each, including 10 innings in Game Five, and throwing on short rest in Game Seven.
It was a pleasure to have seen him play.
He was so dominant that they had to lower the mound - he wasn’t the only winning pitcher that year, but his 1968 stats are mind-boggling:
This from the Washington Post:
“ Gibson started 34 games that season and went the full nine innings in 28 of them. He had 13 shutouts and 268 strikeouts. In one stretch from June 6 to July 30, he won 11 straight starts — all of them complete games — and allowed only three runs.
Unbelievable.
If that happened today, they’d have to arrest him.
The other thing about Gibson was more than funny:
He was always squinting into the catcher with what appeared to be a menacing look that struck fear into batter’s hearts, not to mention the rest of their bodies (he owned the inside part of the plate.) Years after he retired he revealed that the squinting, menacing look was not from any inner rage, but because he needed to squint to see the catcher’s sign, his eyesight being somewhat near. But he used that to intimidate his opponents.
They broke the mold on that one. Even in that era of great pitching - which we will never see again - he was at the top of the heap.
And, to show that a won-loss record is meaningless, in 1968 Gibson lost 9 games - with a 1.12 era. That cardinals offense must have been putrid. Can you imagine?
AND, he had 28 complete games that year but did not lead the league - that honor went to Juan Marichal who threw 30 complete games of his own.
Heard a lot of great stories about him. He buzzed a lot of hitters and headhunted. But you still respected him as a fierce competitor, unlike today's cheaters in Boston and Houston. R.I.P.
The Hammer of God
The biggest thing wrong with Bob Gibson, maybe the only thing, is that he wasn't a Yankee. RIP Bob. You would've looked magnificent in Pinstripes.
No wait, I am wrong. There was something wrong with Bob Gibson Terribly wrong: that putrid buttmuch Tim McCarver. McCarver is like the greasy mucus-filled stool one gets from cholera. He needs to fuck right off.
Fuck you McCarver.
Aww, McCarver was a very good catcher in those days.
1968 was the year hitting just melted down. The high strike paired with the high mound was too much. It was a good thing they made some alterations.
But in any era, Gibson would've been great.
Another interesting thing: Gibson did not start pitching in the pros until he was 21, after college. He never threw more than 190 innings in a season until he was 25.
It’s probably not a good idea Win, to shit on McCarver. You can’t say much about his abilities with a bat (in spite of a lifetime .271 over 21 years - I repeat OVER TWENTY ONE YEARS).
Too many younger people only know him from his years as a broadcaster - he was a damn fine color man - I learned more about baseball from Tim than all other announcers combined.
But that is not what makes him such a unique character in baseball history. The man was prized as a receiver and game caller - so respected and reliable that he was the personal catcher for Bob Gibson for seven years, then wound up in Philly where he was Steve Carlton’s personal catcher. The guy was behind the plate for four Cy Young seasons, two with Gibson and twice with Steve Carlton.
You can’t do much better than that.
And McCarver has moments in Yankees history:
“A notable call by McCarver followed the Yankees' victory in the 1996 World Series, which took place two days after manager Joe Torre's brother Frank received a heart transplant. As the Yankees celebrated, McCarver said: "Frank Torre is on the second day of his second heart. Joe Torre is in the 56th year of his first one. Both are overflowing."
And then this, which endeared me to him forever:
“ In 2010, he compared the New York Yankees treatment of former manager Joe Torre to the treatment meted out by Nazi Germany and Stalinist Russia to generals who fell out of favour with their leaders.”
To my knowledge, Torre is still alive.
"But Gibson was goddamn great, and there is no way we'll see anyone like him again." The amazing CLICHE-MATIC!
All hail Bob Gibson. But one does his memory no favors by perpetuating the legend of Ty Cobb's racism. It doesn't stand scrutiny. It's slander.
https://nypost.com/2015/05/31/how-ty-cobb-was-framed-as-a-racist/
I started watching the Yanks in '65 (with a 3 camera picture on a 13" B & W TV). Saw a few Gibson games. He was great... but....
in perspective....
25th all-time WAR
55th all-time ERA+
He is really known for that one, GREAT year.
And today's Pitchers do it from a lower mound.
You are correct, Gibby was just a dream to watch. Remember the shadows during the WS, Yikes. You are right on another point, totally different time. My Dad and uncles fought in WWII, we fought in Vietnam, "kids" today fight on Twitter.
Yes, I know about Iraq and Afghanistan, but very different that the other generations because there is no draft today so there is a tremendous disconnect between military and civilian family that did not exist then. I know that because my son is a Sgt. in the Army. Talk about the races being equal, if you want to see everyone work together in harmony, look no further than the military. There are some faults in relationships, but nothing like what we see in the civilian world.
The Archangel
Publius, the characterization of Cobb as a racist has been an accepted part of baseball lore for so long, I fell right into it. If the NY Post article is accurate, he wasn't the bastard he was cracked up to be.
I revised the post to reflect your input. Thanks.
Hold on. I read that book on Cobb, too, and while he was probably not as much of a racist as he was later made out to be...he was a racist.
For cryin' out loud, he kept a black kid around as a ha-ha mascot, and used to claim that he had killed a black man.
The man was a rat bastard...and a racist.
And OldYanksFan, are you being ironic? Because:
—First, 25th in WAR, of all the pitchers who ever threw a ball in the majors. What's more, 7 of the guys ahead of him played in the dead ball era or before the turn into the 20th century.
—Second, ditto on ERA, and then some. Gibson is actually 142nd in lifetime ERA. But 118 of those pitchers ahead of him were deadball or 19th century. Many of the others were relievers.
When it comes to starters who played significant time after 1920...Gibson is 10th all-time.
It is true that he benefited greatly from the rules of the most intense pro-pitching era since 1920.
But it's NOT true that he benefited from just one great year.
From 1961-1973, Gibby went:
13-12 3.24
15-13 2.85
18-9 3.39
19-12 3.01
20-12 3.07
21-12 2.44
13-7 2.98
22-9 1.12
20-13 2.18
23-7 3.12
16-13 3.04
19-11 2.46
12-10 2.77
He won the Cy Young in 1970 as well as in 1968, and finished in the top 10 for the award two more times. Besides winning the MVP in 1968, he was 4th in the voting in 1970. He struck out 3,117 batters lifetime, and won 9 Gold Gloves, and hit 26 home runs, including 2 in the World Series.
As a pitcher in the Series, he was 7-2 lifetime, with a 1.89 ERA, 8 complete games, 2 shutouts, and 92 strikeouts and only 17 walks in 81 innings.
I'd say that's more than one great year.
Hoss, that was beautiful.
You speak my mind very clearly. And I’d like to add a one more detail to his amazing career that was, as you pointed out, more than one great year:
The original strikeout king, Walter Johnson was the first to reach 3000 in 1924 - FIFTY YEARS passed before Gibson became the second. Since then a flood of pitchers have joined that exclusive club.
In the 45 years since Gibson hit 3000, sixteen pitchers have joined the club.
50 years, 2 pitchers. 45 years, 16 more.
Clearly, something has changed.
Hoss, that was beautiful.
You speak my mind very clearly. And I’d like to add a one more detail to his amazing career that was, as you pointed out, more than one great year:
The original strikeout king, Walter Johnson was the first to reach 3000 in 1924 - FIFTY YEARS passed before Gibson became the second. Since then a flood of pitchers have joined that exclusive club.
In the 45 years since Gibson hit 3000, sixteen pitchers have joined the club.
50 years, 2 pitchers. 45 years, 16 more.
Clearly, something has changed.
But if I had to win one game, I'd still take Ford. (This is a Yankees site, after all.)
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